But We must be careful to NOT "throw out the baby with the bath". There are a lot of things in Our Political Culture that can be retained.

Starting with Our Constitution. When We have gotten back to its proper jurisdiction over Us, then We can improve it.

Reducing the power of the "Military/Industrial Complex" by:

(1) Bringing ALL Our Soldiers Home from around the world...except those who love the fighting and killing and want to be involved that way in the world. The "American Foreign Legion" perhaps?

 

(2) Reducing military spending by over 50% and concentrating on Our Defense here on American Soil. Make Our Enemies come to Us, if they are determined to attack Us. There is plenty to do right here at Home.

 

(3) End the "Fed" and banish ALL international banking from Our Land.

 

(4) Outlaw "outsourcing".

 

More later.

 

 

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This sounds a bit too much like isolationism. Sure it was working great right to about oh December 7th, 1941... Although I will agree that the US could use a healthy dose of economic nationalism to give power back to our economy and not chinas. This, I believe, would also save the middle class. Also be careful, these views sound a bit extreme, the biggest problem right now is that the two parties are waaaay extreme and aren't accomplishing anything. To sit there on a soap box and go nuts about isolationism and cutting our defense sounds like a combo of two evils from both parties. We live in a world where we need to find balance and compromise. If we don't then we'll fall like the rest behind our walls trying to kill eachother. I believe that is the reason this party exists to unite the independents and find a pragmatic solution to our current two parties, not another extremist group.  Let us not forget this.

Well expressed Mr. Wittman. I am, to large degree, an "Isolationist". I believe We need to minimize Our involvement with the rest of the world, until We have gotten Ourselves on a Better Path of National Destiny Fulfillment.

And Yes. I am "extreme", in my beliefs, when dealing with Our Present National State.

I believe the "extremism" of the "two parties" is an extreme product of the new world order. I am extreme in the opposite direction from that.

I may be the only person in this site that has my "extreme" views. I dont believe in "bandaids", but getting to the core of the problems. This is my "pragmatism". And please do not fear my extreme views, they have a very long way to go before they could be realized.

So...let Us concentrate on any agreements We have eh? And I agree with your statement of: "Although I will agree that the US could use a healthy dose of economic nationalism to give power back to our economy and not chinas. This, I believe, would also save the middle class."

Good. A great place to begin the many corrections this nation needs. I will vote for that. Especially if the "healthy dose economic nationalism" includes more "Worker Owned Companies".

Question: I didn't say "cutting our defense". I do advocate cutting the extreme and wasteful costs of our Industrial/Military Complex, which is new world order empire work. How does cutting Our Industrial/Military presence in the rest of the world, "...sound like a combo of two evils from both parties"? Neither party even looks at this option, as far as i know.

 

Also, how did you know I was sitting on a soap box?

 

 

 

 

Good Saturday Morning Mr. Ondich. I heartily agree with your observations and opinion. My proposals, that might one day become a good corrective framework for a Better America, is at floor level right now. Still developing. I am even still excavating in History to help me get a more True perspective. This is an ongoing process that has taken several years and will probably take many more...as i discover new and deeper aspects to the Truth Of Us.

Right now I am focused on studying Our Constitution, in a class given by Donna Zenovitch and sponsored by the Calaveras Tea Party, (a county here in California), and the online "Meetup" organization. Right now, I am thinking that We "Citizen Partyites" might begin Our Quest to help America become More and Better at the Constitution. But this is just an idea that has not been acknowledged here yet.

 

There are a lot of other areas of Our Culture that We could start at, but my intuition urges me to go back to "first base" so to speak...sort of where it all began as a Republic. But there are a lot of elements in Our Society that We need to "work with". The Independent Spirit of Citizenship, that probably prevails here, is one of these elements. A real good element I think.

 

A concrete idea, I can offer right now, is the establishment of a "Permanent Constitutional Convention" that will do the revision work of "improvment". Of course, this will fail, if We The People don't get involved at majority levels. I strongly believe that as many "True Citizens" as possible should be involved in this change for the Better process. We got a long way to go and this journey is taken one step at a time. But then again, maybe many steps at a time...if We use well, Our Many feet. Moderate steps whenever possible and feasible. Sort of like stalking. Move surely and quietly, until attacked, then, having a lot of Ducks in Our Row, move in bigger and stronger ways. Just thinking "out loud". Lets see how far we can get softly first.

Thank you for your response. Its nice to meet you.       Ol Dan

 

 

 

Howdy again Mr. Ondich. For the most part, I agree with your observations. There are a few exceptions, as always, to these Truths, which to me makes this whole thing all the more interesting. This phenomena prevents, to some degree, the total "crystalization" of mind set that Humans tend to embrace. Which, in turn, allows a little leeway for some progress of agreement between factions. But, unfortunately, this is slow to come. Sometimes change is too slow. 

I have actually sensed some openess to "other" ideas, than the standard rhetoric encountered in the Tea Party. But, I have not been around these Tea Partiers long enough to encourage more flexibility of thought or attitude. We'll see what happens as the months wear on with this class.

I really appreciate your attitude and thoughts of: "I believe the current platform can bring both progressive leaning people like me and conservative leaning together." I can see real possibilities along these lines. I am always for co-operation for bigger and better coalitions of True Citizens. Increases the spectrum for achievment, so to speak.

"Reform Party"? That was the Ross Perot deal wasn't it? I have never been able to decide whether or not I was glad or mad that he bailed out on Us. There was a moment that I was inspired by him. Don't remember the "Reform Party Platform" however. I wonder if it was similar to the platform of the "American Reform Party" that still hangs on today?

Yes. The "two-party" system has betrayed "Us".  It has failed Our Constitutional Republic and caused harm to the cause of Democracy. We need to root out these enemies of The People, along with the darkness that operates behind them.

I never knew President Franklin Deleanor Roosevelt, but I thank the day He was born. If it wasn't for His Social Security program for The People, I would be in a heck of a fix right now. "Ike" Eisenhower was the first president I was aware of as a child. I picked up on His popularity, as it pulsed around me in Texas and do heed His warning about the Military/Industrial Complex. John F. Kennedy seemed to be promising, but now We will never know what "good" He would have actually done.

I agree with Your thoughts about a "Third Party Movement", but do feel frustration at the majority of The People who cling to the "Two Parties". But We do have to keep trying to help them see what We see. They are just afraid and psyched into the status quo. There are a lot of Third Parties, of varying degrees of success. I tried to help Ralph Nader in 2008, but ended up disappointed in the low number of votes He won.

The "Citizen Party" was brought to my attention by my Friend, Eric Reinhardt, who reported that the "Independent Party" was making changes, starting with its name. I liked the "ring", ambiance and potential of "Citizen Party" and joined to see where it might be going. It seems to be in a formative period, where some fresh new ideas might be welcome...or at least tolerated. It is in my mind, that Independent Men and Women, just might be less "locked in" to old party rhetoric and notions. And one just might find some of them to be very interesting in what they think and offer the group.

I guess I will mosey over to my blog area for a while and see if I can plop some more of my weird stuff in there. It might help with the "Citizen Party" formation, but if it don't that is ok too. At least I have a place to park some of my notions and meet some good People. Oh yes...and learn more about Our Situation as a nation.

So far, the "Citizens Party" platform looks fine to me. Pragmatic and sincere. Able to do some good for the Many, instead of just the "few". My ideas would only be useful further down Our Road.

See ya later. Its good to communicate with you. Good to see that there is at least one other Soul on Our Planet that sees much of what I see...regarding the "what the heck happened" part.

 

As I read your responses to all the comments on this website I see that you consistently come back to a practical application level.  This is a breath of fresh air.  Often times in the established political parties they act as if the free flow of ideas is their norm.  However, this is not true.  The two parties running the USA are not open to innovation and new ideas.  I am excited to see how the Citizens Party develops and especially interested in the adoption of a party platform at a formal convention.  I think it would be a major mistake to get too ambitious.  This is a long process and to begin with congressional seats as well as seats in the state legislatures would be the most prudent and long lasting approach.  If Citizens Party nominates a presidential candidate it could actually destroy its credibility before it has a chance to earn it. How can we focus the energy of this vehicle towards actionable goals rather than intellectual ideas, no matter how compelling, which have no chance of becoming reality in a diverse country such as our own?  Remember, it's a democracy and every seat has to be earned through hard work and perseverance.   The real fight in politics is not the ideology but the communication of the message so as to connect with voters and win seats in the government.  The ideology will develop naturally and correctly as long as we follow a democratic procedure.  To the convention!


Josh D. Ondich said:

Daniel,

We both agree the two party system has betrayed us and failed the American people greatly.  one time in our country during FDR, Eisenhower and JFK we had great leaders within the two party system.  I believe the cause of Democracy got lost over the years due to the corrupting influence of multi-national corporations and wall street. It is due time to join together as Americans and create a third party movement bring the power back to the people.  Your question on the Reform Party platform, It is very similar to the citizen party platform, but Ross Perot believed social issues were left up to the individual member and/or candidate. Perot believed a economic plank like the Citizens party would unite a strong independent movement that the two parties could not ignore.

Good to see your well considered comment Mr. O'Conner. A pragmatic approach does have its value. It is the bridge between Idealism and applicable solution and is indespensible as such. Any kind of idealism would be useless in Life without it. We have to figure out the how of Our Whys. Tricky business to be sure. Especially since idealism and pragmatism can be misused intentionally, or in error.

I will take a look at one of the definitions of "pragmatic" to be sure I am seeing it sufficiently. This one is from Cambridge Dictionary:

"Pragmatic": Solving problems in a realistic way which suits the present conditions rather than obeying fixed theories, ideas or rules. In business, the pragmatic approach to problems is often more successful than an idealistic one."

Ahhh. There is that, sometimes ambiguous, word again: "realistic". I suppose realistic is "that which is." But, that which is real is sometimes not seen correctly, or unreality is idealistically offered in its place.

"Suits the present conditions" is interesting. Does this mean We should decide and act only in the moment? The Great Now? I do try, but only with small success...I suppose because of the narrow focus of Now...the limitations of the "present conditions". It is hard for me to come up with solution if I have only the knowledge of "what is" to use. Surely, something helpful could be found in the "was" and "could be" and should be".

 

Ooops. I have to pragmatically depart from this. I am being called to the great now of dinner. One "nowism" that I do well with. Later and thanks again.  

It's not hard to get the "how" of the "why" done when you have mutual self respect between those who fuel that perspective.  We are all taught that we need to be "somebody."  I'm a young 35 with a lot of experience but still 35.  I need to be around the dreamers and dream myself.  I want to hear elder wisdom.  I need to hear the genious from the mouths of children.  And I need to be practical, especially when it is dinner time.  The answer is that together we can hear each other and allow the debate without making our own fame or superiority the focus of our goals.  Listening to one another is not weakness.  We just need to place parameters on that debate so that we can facilitate a conclusion so we can get focused on our long term goals.  Together we can do anything.  If we can harness our ideas in an effective manner and make it a central focus of our party, the ability to really listen and exercise the democratic process in a organized and effectivly timely manner, then we can become a lasting and mighty force for good in our community.  All politics is local.  Thanks for letting me join your local community. 

Well said Mr. O'Connor. Amen to it. Me thinks We have to familiarize Ourselves with what We got to work with. Just what are Our tools and materials? To construct Our Good Ship to Our Goals? What do We, as a new party, need? Want?

There are some ideas here. In the "Platform" area. The first thing I notice about the "Citizen Party Platform" is that each entry and item is in about one sentence. The spittin image of conciseness. Does this simplicity denote a wealth of Good Thought and Feeling rendered to essence, or the beginnings of such? I really need to take a good long look at each item and think about it. What do you think?

 

Maybe We could address each item of the Platform in this forum, in separate discussions?

 

My "local community"?

 

I'm glad you joined. You seem to be a sincere and reasonable fellow. Looking forward to your contribution here.

Kyle O'Connor said:

It's not hard to get the "how" of the "why" done when you have mutual self respect between those who fuel that perspective.  We are all taught that we need to be "somebody."  I'm a young 35 with a lot of experience but still 35.  I need to be around the dreamers and dream myself.  I want to hear elder wisdom.  I need to hear the genious from the mouths of children.  And I need to be practical, especially when it is dinner time.  The answer is that together we can hear each other and allow the debate without making our own fame or superiority the focus of our goals.  Listening to one another is not weakness.  We just need to place parameters on that debate so that we can facilitate a conclusion so we can get focused on our long term goals.  Together we can do anything.  If we can harness our ideas in an effective manner and make it a central focus of our party, the ability to really listen and exercise the democratic process in a organized and effectivly timely manner, then we can become a lasting and mighty force for good in our community.  All politics is local.  Thanks for letting me join your local community. 

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